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Author Topic: Flyway Cam NFWR La Crosse  (Read 391872 times)

Ginger52

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Re: Flyway Cam NFWR La Crosse
« Reply #660 on: August 27, 2019, 08:53:19 PM »

A calming and peaceful video of eagles and clouds from today on the Flyway Cam.  Enjoy.

https://youtu.be/UuO039iCiF0

LORIDAVIS

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Re: Flyway Cam NFWR La Crosse
« Reply #661 on: August 27, 2019, 08:58:48 PM »

A calming and peaceful video of eagles and clouds from today on the Flyway Cam.  Enjoy.

https://youtu.be/UuO039iCiF0

Thank you Ginger... Nice ending to a sad day.  :'(
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 09:14:38 PM by LORIDAVIS »
Lori Davis
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BrokenLug

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Re: Flyway Cam NFWR La Crosse
« Reply #662 on: August 27, 2019, 11:36:16 PM »

Whoa, whoa, easy .. 

These are WILD birds that we are watching in the wild .

In a very inaccessible place.
Simmer down.
NATURE.

Just because your armchair 24/7/365 computer monitor saw it doesn't mean that this natural selection hasn't happened thousands of times before for 100's of year's.

If a lion eats a gazelle on the discovery channel and you don't like what you're seeing, change the channel.

All of the great rangers and all of the great field mammal biologists that I know of ain't jumping in to change the outcome.

Again Nature.   



« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 12:00:07 AM by BrokenLug »
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Ginger52

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Re: Flyway Cam NFWR La Crosse
« Reply #663 on: August 28, 2019, 12:50:30 AM »

Whoa, whoa, easy .. 

These are WILD birds that we are watching in the wild .

In a very inaccessible place.
Simmer down.
NATURE.

Just because your armchair 24/7/365 computer monitor saw it doesn't mean that this natural selection hasn't happened thousands of times before for 100's of year's.

If a lion eats a gazelle on the discovery channel and you don't like what you're seeing, change the channel.

All of the great rangers and all of the great field mammal biologists that I know of ain't jumping in to change the outcome.

Again Nature.

All I can say is WOW!  Just WOW.  Could you mansplain some more to us?

BrokenLug

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Re: Flyway Cam NFWR La Crosse
« Reply #664 on: August 28, 2019, 01:38:16 AM »

I am very upset. These are the experts? That little baby didn't move all day, there was no way you can convince me FWS couldn't rescue and save it. Poor baby, didn't even get a chance for help.

Our U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services is useless.  They don't give a damn about saving wildlife.  All they care about is killing predators at the behest of the ranchers, farmers and mining companies.  And they have become even worse under the Trump admin.

Hey Ginger Could you womensplain these above comments to me ?

Ginger52 All I can say is WOW!  Just WOW.  Could you mansplain some more to us?

I find that 'mansplain' comment a Very non PC and derogatory post towards me and many others. 

I resent it tremendously.

If I blew smoke up your skirt like that you'd be screaming from the rafters womensplain.

Hey Lucy why don't you splain it to Ginger.

Why was my post before you didn't read the previous posts before you chimed in so egregious to you ?     

Should we not leave all of the birds out of it however ?

I refuse to clutter up this awesome camera's forum posting space with anymore such nonsense.

08/28/19 ..

« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 05:03:21 AM by BrokenLug »
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monarch

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Re: Flyway Cam NFWR La Crosse
« Reply #665 on: August 28, 2019, 08:37:58 AM »

I am very upset. These are the experts? That little baby didn't move all day, there was no way you can convince me FWS couldn't rescue and save it. Poor baby, didn't even get a chance for help.

Our U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services is useless.  They don't give a damn about saving wildlife.  All they care about is killing predators at the behest of the ranchers, farmers and mining companies.  And they have become even worse under the Trump admin.

Hey Ginger Could you womensplain these above comments to me ?

Ginger52 All I can say is WOW!  Just WOW.  Could you mansplain some more to us?

I find that 'mansplain' comment a Very non PC and derogatory post towards me and many others. 

I resent it tremendously.

If I blew smoke up your skirt like that you'd be screaming from the rafters womensplain.

Hey Lucy why don't you splain it to Ginger.

Why was my post before you didn't read the previous posts before you chimed in so egregious to you ?     

Should we not leave all of the birds out of it however ?

I refuse to clutter up this awesome camera's forum posting space with anymore such nonsense.

08/28/19 ..

Amen to Ginger's comments and if we see/have the opportunity to help our wildlife we should, that's all I'm sayin!

LORIDAVIS

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Re: Flyway Cam NFWR La Crosse
« Reply #666 on: August 28, 2019, 09:07:10 AM »

photo via explore

« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 09:16:37 AM by LORIDAVIS »
Lori Davis
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FinnBMD

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Re: Flyway Cam NFWR La Crosse
« Reply #667 on: August 28, 2019, 09:34:33 AM »

[I'll probably regret posting this but what the heck--it won't be the first time and it probably won't be the last that I stick my nose in where it probably doesn't belong].  I've been looking for some sort of explanation on the internet for USFWS policy on rescuing injured animals found on their land and didn't really find anything definitive other than they support contacting wildlife rehabilitation experts in the area where the injured animal is found:  I found the following statement on one of their web links: "We often receive phone calls from concerned individuals asking what to do with an injured or baby animal they have discovered. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service does not provide wildlife rehabilitation or nuisance wildlife capture services. Our role is to provide permits to those who rehabilitate endangered, threatened, or otherwise federally protected species, like migratory birds."

To me the interesting part of the RRP statement yesterday was this:   "RRP is just a guest at this refuge with our cameras and all we can do is report issues as we see them and go through the proper procedures with the agencies involved."  The most interesting part of the UWFS manager's statement was this:  "It appears the eagle is molting and thus flightless at this time.... As soon as its primary flight feathers come in, it should be able to fly again.  It is also a juvenile bird and likely a little disoriented.  We'll keep an eye on it."  What training about bald eagle physiology was his analysis based on? How long did he think it was going to be before the flight feathers came in? Did he think it was okay for the juvenile to just stay in one spot in the river water until then? What does he mean by "disoriented"? If they didn't think RRP could be given a permit to rescue the eagle or contact the appropriate people to get involved in the rescue, why didn't the Forest Service themselves contact the Coulee Region Humane Society in LaCrosse? Or look at this map from WI DNR about rehab centers all over the state:  https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabitat/directory.html. Until we get the final statement about this whole unfortunate event from RRP, there are more questions than answers for me.

I did find this article from National Geographic that does a good job of explaining the dilemma:  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2016/05/160523-when-to-rescue-wild-animals/

« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 10:18:40 AM by FinnBMD »

NWargo01

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Re: Flyway Cam NFWR La Crosse
« Reply #668 on: August 28, 2019, 10:54:21 AM »

I just saw a comment on RRP Facebook page where the commenter quoted an email he received earlier from the Deputy Refuge Manager:

"Sorry for the delay in responding.  I needed to gather a little more information about the eagle you observed.  It appears the eagle is molting and thus flightless at this time.  Eagles and many other birds go through a period each year where they shed their feathers (called molting) and cannot fly.  The feathers do grow back (like clipping a finger nail or a dog shedding its fur).  As soon as its primary flight feathers come in, it should be able to fly again.  It is also a juvenile bird and likely a little disoriented.  We'll keep an eye on it.  Thanks for contacting me and for your interest in eagles and the Upper Mississippi River."

Just appalling.   >:(    No wonder there was no rescue!

Aren't you glad they taught us all what molting means???!!!  Idiots!  Obviously they didn't even try to physically go there and check it out themselves.  As with our Decorah cams, I wonder how many youngsters were watching that tragedy play out. 

When I saw the injured eagle sinking lower in the water I knew it was about gone.  I felt so bad for its companion.  Being young juveniles, they may have traveled together and looked out for each other.  I don't know if the injured bird could have survived without intervention, but I know if it was RRP they would have tried everything in their power to help it.  Makes me even MORE grateful for RRP and everyone who gives their time to further its causes.

Ginger, you described it perfectly...APPALLING!

T40cfr403

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Re: Flyway Cam NFWR La Crosse
« Reply #669 on: August 28, 2019, 11:33:32 AM »

Finn, move your nose over a bit, because I'm about to join you.

I don't know the first thing about this USFWS office, except that they don't know the first thing about the knowledge and wrath of eaglecam viewers. I'm also suspicious of what constraints headquarters may have put on field offices, but -- and I'm being sarcastic here -- I'd bet RRP would have been more successful if they had asked for an "incidental take" permit instead of offering to rescue.

Just take a look at the forum's "Birds and the Law" thread (https://www.raptorresource.org/forum/index.php?topic=2532.495) for what's happened to the USFWS in the past 2 years. To coin a phrase, it's "appalling!"
Only within the moment of time represented by the present century has one species -- man -- acquired significant power to alter the nature of the world.
― Rachel Carson, Silent Spring

NWargo01

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Re: Flyway Cam NFWR La Crosse
« Reply #670 on: August 28, 2019, 12:17:10 PM »

[I'll probably regret posting this but what the heck--it won't be the first time and it probably won't be the last that I stick my nose in where it probably doesn't belong].  I've been looking for some sort of explanation on the internet for USFWS policy on rescuing injured animals found on their land and didn't really find anything definitive other than they support contacting wildlife rehabilitation experts in the area where the injured animal is found:  I found the following statement on one of their web links: "We often receive phone calls from concerned individuals asking what to do with an injured or baby animal they have discovered. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service does not provide wildlife rehabilitation or nuisance wildlife capture services. Our role is to provide permits to those who rehabilitate endangered, threatened, or otherwise federally protected species, like migratory birds."

To me the interesting part of the RRP statement yesterday was this:   "RRP is just a guest at this refuge with our cameras and all we can do is report issues as we see them and go through the proper procedures with the agencies involved."  The most interesting part of the UWFS manager's statement was this:  "It appears the eagle is molting and thus flightless at this time.... As soon as its primary flight feathers come in, it should be able to fly again.  It is also a juvenile bird and likely a little disoriented.  We'll keep an eye on it."  What training about bald eagle physiology was his analysis based on? How long did he think it was going to be before the flight feathers came in? Did he think it was okay for the juvenile to just stay in one spot in the river water until then? What does he mean by "disoriented"? If they didn't think RRP could be given a permit to rescue the eagle or contact the appropriate people to get involved in the rescue, why didn't the Forest Service themselves contact the Coulee Region Humane Society in LaCrosse? Or look at this map from WI DNR about rehab centers all over the state:  https://dnr.wi.gov/topic/wildlifehabitat/directory.html. Until we get the final statement about this whole unfortunate event from RRP, there are more questions than answers for me.

I did find this article from National Geographic that does a good job of explaining the dilemma:  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2016/05/160523-when-to-rescue-wild-animals/

Finn, thank you for your well written and well thought out post!  This obviously has been an emotional experience for many of us.  We inherently know that wildlife is wildlife and as BL said, these kinds of things have been happening since the beginning of time.  It's just that we now have a window seat to observe it firsthand in a way never before possible.  I think many of us were frustrated because we followed what we thought were the proper channels to report and document the distress the juvenile was in, but it didn't provide the assistance we thought it should/would.  I thought if someplace was designated as a 'refuge' that meant not only was the land protected for wildlife, but assistance in extreme circumstances would be provided if it became necessary.  Evidently, that is not the case. The National Geographic article summed it up with this:

?The rule of thumb is that if human activity causes an animal to become injured or orphaned, we may intervene. If not?if it?s something that happened naturally?then we don?t,? says ecologist Doug Smith, who oversees Yellowstone?s wolf and avian management. 

The simple truth is, RRP is a caring and compassionate organization because of its founder, Bob Anderson.  Even though it's grown over the years, the same basic love of nature and its creatures still applies.  However, when you're dealing with a large government organization, such as the USFWS, their responsibility ends at providing the protected spaces and educating the public about conservation and preservation.  There is no human thought process as there is with RRP, and definitely no emotion involved.  Lesson learned unfortunately.

FinnBMD

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Re: Flyway Cam NFWR La Crosse
« Reply #671 on: August 28, 2019, 12:57:29 PM »

T40:  Thank you for the incredible work you have done in the Birds and the Law thread.  I try to keep up with the topic in news feeds but have missed so much of what has been happening and thanks to your effort, the missing pieces are all in one place.  I appreciate your support about my statement re events at the MR cam the past few days. We'll have to compare noses some day to see if there was any damage done--lol.

NWar: Thank you also for your analysis of the events of the past couple of days and the difference between our understanding of the many benefits associated with RRP's approach to nature and its creatures versus the approach of USFWS and the irony of using the term "refuge" to describe what is being "accomplished" by them at Brice Prairie and probably at their sites all over the US.  I can't help but wonder if a difference in the definition of "stewardship" of the land and wildlife was considered by RRP before they entered into this arrangement.    As you say, "lesson learned unfortunately".

T40cfr403

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Re: Flyway Cam NFWR La Crosse
« Reply #672 on: August 28, 2019, 04:44:46 PM »

Sitting here at my window on the flyway, I could make a good case that human activity did cause that poor eagle's suffering. Hit by a car. Attacked by a dog. Caught in a trap. Or some yahoo shot it's tailfeathers off. The last time I saw sparse, scraggly-looking tailfeathers like that was on an owl that had flown over a gas flare at just the wrong time. But, for sure, it wasn't from "molting." If you don't rescue the eagle, you'll never be able to put a name on the cause, but you just might be able to "conserve" it through rehab and release. Just sayin'...
Only within the moment of time represented by the present century has one species -- man -- acquired significant power to alter the nature of the world.
― Rachel Carson, Silent Spring

NWargo01

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Re: Flyway Cam NFWR La Crosse
« Reply #673 on: August 28, 2019, 05:34:18 PM »

Sitting here at my window on the flyway, I could make a good case that human activity did cause that poor eagle's suffering. Hit by a car. Attacked by a dog. Caught in a trap. Or some yahoo shot it's tailfeathers off. The last time I saw sparse, scraggly-looking tailfeathers like that was on an owl that had flown over a gas flare at just the wrong time. But, for sure, it wasn't from "molting." If you don't rescue the eagle, you'll never be able to put a name on the cause, but you just might be able to "conserve" it through rehab and release. Just sayin'...

That's a very good point T40.  I was trying to think of what might have caused the tail feathers to fall out also.  Could lead poisoning (or any type of insecticide/pest killer) cause that? That might explain the eagle's lethargy and loss of appetite as well. 

RRP has had to make some pretty tough decisions through the years as to whether they should intervene in unusual circumstances, and I have to commend them for knowing when to step in or let nature run its course.  It's a tough call and one that requires knowledge of the creatures involved. Here's hoping (and praying!) that other organizations, dedicated to preserving protected spaces for wildlife, will apply the same consideration in making their decisions on intervention, and act on those decisions quickly.   :'(

FinnBMD

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Re: Flyway Cam NFWR La Crosse
« Reply #674 on: August 28, 2019, 05:35:44 PM »

RRP just posted this news on their FB page:  "UPDATE (August 28, 2019 @ 3:29 PM): The eagle's body has been recovered. We'll let you know more when we do."