Animal cognition and emotions

[Faithymd]

lv - I get it now - and you may be correct.  But it may be that the instinct is to feed while food available, and that with domesticated birds we are making too much available.  My grandmother always warned against over feeding her chickens - "leave em wanting a bit dear - fat lazy birds don't lay well, or taste well"  Got to love grand-ma - LOL

Lois Ann - you beat me to it - I just saw the report (from a different source) and immediately thought to post it here.  I just love it when 'we' realize that animals can do things we want to assume only we can do.  Makes you wonder who the smart ones really are.  Said it before, and I'll say it again - most animals we interact with (for any real time) learn to interpret our language - but we have yet to learn any of theirs.

[maryannlewis]

I've seriously neglected this thread, and was skimming through it today.

I had mentioned crows making tools, and this is featured in a PBS video "A murder of crows".  Not only does it discuss tool making, but it shows the ability of crows to recognize the human "face" (actually a mask) of someone who had threatened them, and to pass that information along to their young.

It really made me think twice about crows!  But, I didn't think to post the link to the episode!  Duh!  So, here it is.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/a-murder-of-crows/full-episode/5977/

Mary Ann

[mayreee]

I decided to repost this here, after I put it in the Beak Room:

I've been holding this story, because it seems to some ... improbable.

One day in early Spring it was an unusually warm sunny day.  I was driving past a construction area, and there were about fifty partying gulls, hopping in and out of rain puddles, interacting and making alot of joyful noise, and obviously enjoying themselves immensely.  I stopped the car to watch, and it was wonderful.  Then a car came from the other direction really fast, veered off the dirt road, and plowed right through the cavorting gulls, while the young driver and his passenger enjoyed a good laugh. 

One gull was dead; the party was over. The other gulls quietly walked around him, looked at him, and one by one silently took off.  About two minutes later, a sole gull rapidly approached from a distance, wings beating hard. He flew above the dead gull, and made mournful sounds, while swooping down to get a better look.  After a few minutes, he silently and slowly flew back in the direction he came from.

That day, I know I saw joy, and I know I saw sorrow, from a flock of gulls.

[lv chard]

What a great story mayree.
I saw the same only w/ a pack of wild horses.  While driving through AZ in the dessert I noticed a pack of horses hovering close to the road.  As I approached I saw a colt that was dead on the side of the road.  The others had circled their dead friend.  These horses knew that a member of their group had died.  I see it now; it remains in my inner self.  Thank you for your comments which allowed me to revisit my experience sharing "emotions" w/ these horses.

[mayreee]

An oldie, but goodie:

Freedom and  Jeff

Freedom and I  have been together 11 years this summer. She  came in as a baby in 1998 with two broken  wings. Her left wing doesn't open all the way even after surgery, it was broken in 4 places. She's my baby.

When Freedom came in she could not stand and both wings were broken. She was emaciated and covered in  lice. We made the decision to give her a chance at life, so I took her to the vet's office. From then on, I was always around her. We had her in a huge dog carrier  with the top off, and it was loaded up with shredded newspaper for her to lay in. I used to sit and talk to her, urging her to live, to fight; and she would lay there looking at me with those big brown eyes. We also had to tube feed her for weeks.
 
This went on for  4-6 weeks, and by then she still couldn't stand. It got to the point where the decision was made to euthanize her if she couldn't stand in a week. You know you don't want to cross that line between torture and rehab, and it looked like death was winning. She was going to be put down that Friday, and I was supposed to come in on that Thursday afternoon. I didn't want to go to the center that Thursday, because I couldn't bear the thought of her being euthanized; but I went anyway, and when I walked in  everyone was grinning from ear to ear. I went immediately back to her cage; and there she was, standing on her own, a big  beautiful eagle. She was ready to live. I was Just about in tears by then. That was a very good day.

We knew she could never fly, so the director asked me to glove train her. I got her used to the glove, and then to jesses, and we started doing education programs for schools in western Washington. We wound up in the newspapers, radio (believe it or not) and some TV.  Miracle Pets even did a show about us.

In the spring of  2000, I was diagnosed with Non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. I had stage 3, which is not good (one major organ plus everywhere), so I wound  up doing 8 months of chemo. Lost the  hair - the whole bit.  I missed a lot of work. When I felt good enough, I would go to Sarvey and take Freedom out for walks.  Freedom would also come to me in my dreams and help me fight the cancer. This happened time and time again.

Fast forward to  November 2000. The day after Thanksgiving, I went in for my last checkup. I was told that  if the cancer was not all gone after 8 rounds of chemo, then my last option was a stem cell transplant. Anyway, they did the tests; and I had to come back Monday for the results. I went in Monday, and I was
told that all the cancer was gone.
 
So the first thing I did was get up to Sarvey and take the big girl out for a walk. It was misty and cold. I  went to her flight and jessed her up, and we went out front to the top of the hill. I hadn't said a word to
Freedom, but somehow she knew. She looked at me and wrapped both her wings around me to where I could  feel them pressing in on my back (I was  engulfed in eagle wings), and she touched my nose with her beak and stared into my eyes,  and we just stood there like that for I don't know how long. That was a magic moment. We have been soul mates ever since she came in. This is a very special bird.

On a side note: I have had people who were sick come up to us when we are out, and Freedom has some kind of hold on them. I once had a guy who was terminal come up to us and I let him hold her. His knees just about buckled and he swore he could feel her power course through his body. I have so many stories like that.

I never forget the honor I have of being so close to such a magnificent spirit as Freedom.

[Faithymd]

From this months (Feb 2012) Smithsonian Magazine, a very small artical on Raven gesture communications.  obne Quote; "It's a first for non-apes"  Go Ravens.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/Wild-Things-Yeti-Crabs-Guppies-and-Ravens.html?c=y&page=2&navigation=thumb#IMAGES

[lv chard]

I've been watching the Ric eagle cam.  My thinking is the food resources at this time are not as they should be.  So my thinking goes to instinct v. reasoning.  The parents are instinctively hunting and brooding and feeding when food is available.  The parents do not equally feed, they feed the strongest which is the chick that "gets there first".  The parents protect from the elements and from intruders equally--noting that the parents are not sacrificing one to preserve the other from intruders.
The parents do not interfere with agressive behavior of one chick towards the other. 
BUT, the morning after the first hatch, R1, both parents were onthe nest for 1/2 hour so seemingly proud of this accomplishment.
Thoughts, do the eagles recognize some reasoning as with the acknowlegement of the first hatch?  is this because the eagles "mission" is to raise and fledge at least one each year? 
It seems to me that there is some reasoning involved.  The parent eagles "realize" food resources are not as they should be.  Feed the first to the beak, which would be the first hatchling as this chick had a 2-3 day window of eating.  the first hatch is always going to realize the next one or two are competion, but, backto the food resources.
The line drawn for reasoning v instinct is very fine.  Looks like the parents "know" when food is scarce and then instinctively feed the beak that is agressive--ie the strongest.  It appears the parents "know" when an additional mouth is requiring food--if the food resource is available and feed hatchlings equally.
End result, is if I take the "I'm human" out of the mix and just observe and appreciate, it all makes some sort of sense!
Sure would be interesting to be able to study and find where that line is!!  And there is my delimna.  Seems there is no cause for reasoning from the enviornment; it's instinctive--but it does seem that there is some reasoning with creation.  ie hatch of one and then more than one.  Thoughts?

[lv chard]

Back again talking to myself.
Watching the action/issues w/ the rescue of the eaglet from the MN nest and reviewing one of the vids.  The vid shows both adults coming to the nest, one was carrying prey and there was prey on the nest.  Both adults "beaked" down w/ food for the eaglet who was not able to turn to receive.  Both adults seemed perplexed.  Wow, my human instinct was sadness; the eagle instinct is eaglet, prey, feed.  Gosh, the adults were not concerned w/ the non reception of the eaglet.  It's instinct that draws these magnificant birds to the nest to feed----not to nurture.  I find it most difficult sometimes to differentiate between instinct and emotional.  Whew, this was a big day for this nest.  I hope when Harmon is returned to the nest he can chirp and be heard by the adults so they "instinctively" come to feed.  What a great learning experience in the cognitive behavior.